Even in the early 1960s, the comic book industry realized that in spite of the hugely successful comeback of the superhero genre (which had been clinically dead for most of the 1950s) and the subsequent streak of new creativity and enthusiasm it generated, its traditional sales points were fading away. Small stores that had carried comic books were pushed out of business by larger stores and supermarkets, and newsagents started to view the low cover prices and therefore tiny profit margins comics had to offer as a nuisance.

Many ideas on how to turn these developments around were put forward by different publishers, but the most successful concepts strived to open up new sales opportunities and markets and thus tap into a new customer base.

One place these potential buyers could be found was the growing number of supermarkets and chain stores. But in order to be able to sell comic books at supermarkets, the product would have to be adjusted.
Handling individual issues clearly was no option for these outlets, but by looking at their logistics and display characteristics, DC Comics (who came up with the Comicpac concept in 1961) found that the answer to breaking into this promising new market was to simply package several comic books together in a transparent plastic bag. This resulted in a higher price per unit on sale, which made the whole business of stocking them much more worthwhile for the seller. The simple packaging was also rather nifty because it clearly showed the items were new and untouched, while at the same time blending in with most other goods sold at supermarkets which were also conveniently packaged.  
Outlets were even supplied with dedicated Comicpac racks, which enhanced the product appeal even more since the bags containing the comic books could be displayed on rack hooks in an orderly and neat fashion.

  DC's "comicpacks" were a success - so much so that other publishers quickly started to copy it. Marvel produced a series of Marvel Multi-Mags in 1968/69 but then seems to have dropped the idea again.

However, by the mid-1970s, the House of Ideas had once again fully embraced the marketing concept of selling multiple comic books packaged in a sealed plastic bag to a customer base which comic books could hardly reach otherwise: people shopping at supermarkets and large grocery stores.

It didn't really matter therefore that buying these three comic books in a comicpack for say 89˘ (rather than from a newsagent for 90˘ in that case) clearly presented no real bargain - it was the opportunity and convenience to pick up a few comics at the same time parents and adults did their general shopping. Neatly packaged, it almost became an entirely different class of commodity.


The MARVEL MULTI-MAGS we are looking at here features three titles: Master of Kung Fu #45, Tomb Of Dracula #49, and Marvel Spotlight #30, all from the October 1976 cover date run. This meant that they were actually on sale at newsagents in July 1976, although there could be quite a delay in terms of actual availability of MARVEL MULTI-MAGS at some sales points, resulting in Multi-Mags on display that contained "semi-recent books (typically about nine months old)" (Brevoort, 2007). Considering the packaging and distribution process, this doesn't really seem too surprising.

This specific three-pack is somewhat special in that it belongs to a small number of late 1976 and early 1977 MARVEL MULTI-MAGS that came with a yellow and green on white (3 comics for 89˘) label, which display the anomaly of not having a seal-line below the label. Heat sealing the bag at this point served two purposes. Firstly, it provided a somewhat strengthened label (which of course also doubled as a hanger for most displays), but secondly - and just as importantly - it also provided a tighter fit for the comic books, by restricting their vertical movement inside the bag.

The lack of the sealing line below the label is in fact a major defect with regard to how well the packaging protects its contents, since the comic books inside a MULTI-MAGS polybag of this type are not restricted from moving about into the label part of the sealed bag - quite unlike those packaged inside a "regular" MULTI-MAGS polybag (i.e. with a sealed off label). In some cases - as the example here shows - this protective partition was achieved (to a degree) by the use of staples.


These could have been applied by some resellers upon delivery (or even years later by third parties); it is doubtful that this took place at the original packaging facility.
In any case, the staples did what they were intended to do and prevented any excessive physical damage to the three comic books inside the polybag - especially noticeable when compared to issues that were allowed to "move freely" in such a MULTI-MAGS.

No titles had permanent slots in the MARVEL MULTI-MAGS, but the three titles packaged into this example were hardly ever packaged into Marvel's threepacks. To date, out of the 210 known examples of MARVEL MULTI-MAGS, Master of Kung Fu only featured in three of them, the same number of times as Tomb Of Dracula, while this issue of Marvel Spotlight is the one and only documented occasion that this title was included. The way in which individual issues were selected for inclusion in MARVEL MULTI-MAGS is not at all clear and does, at times, seem slightly haphazard; the MARVEL MULTI-MAGS in question here certainly contains nothing but rarities.

But even with titles that turned up frequently - such as Hulk, Thor or Amazing Spider-Man - there was no guarantee of an uninterrupted flow of consecutive issues - and therefore a distinct possibility of missing out on a part of the storyline. On top of this, the continuity of the Marvel Universe of the 1970s was such that plots and storylines usually evolved over more than one issue.

This didn't exactly make the MULTI-MAGS an ideal way of getting your Marvel comic book fix. However, one needs to bear in mind that this was a common fate of the average comic book reader in the 1970s Bronze Age, whether his or her comic books came packaged in a plastic bag or as single issues from a display or spinner rack. Back in those days, an uninterrupted supply of specific titles simply was not guaranteed. Not worrying too much about possible gaps in storylines became something of a routine - besides, you would usually get a recap of "what happened so far" on the first page.

So all in all it simply was a part of being a comic book fan in the 1970s - as were the monthly Bullpen Bulletins (which were the responsibility of the editor-in-chief) and the in-house advertising (often with mouth watering cover reproductions).

In October 1976, the Bullpen Bulletin was still on its way through the alphabet as far as its title was concerned, arriving at the letter R - which resulted in the typically alliterative and somewhat nonsensical title "A Ragbag of Riotious Repartee for Our Resplendently Rarified Readership!".

The big news - and the headline item of Stan Lee's Soapbox column - was the promotion of Archie Goodwin to Editor-in-Chief.

Lee also mentioned the "illustrious list of former editors-in-chief, Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman, and Gerry Conway" but diligently avoided pointing out that this position had fast become a revolving door affair, with those four gents successively at the helm between 1972 and 1976, all of them stepping down to be able to spend more time writing (with Conway only lasting six weeks as EIC).


Also not mentioned by Stan Lee on this occasion was the fact that Archie Goodwin only agreed to fill the position on the assumption that it would be temporary, until a permanent replacement could be found; ultimately Goodwin would resign at the end of 1977 (Howe, 2012).

As for the actual Bullpen Bulletins' various ITEM! bullet points, they were - as usual - mostly concerned with new and changing assignments to various writers and artists, as well as Marvel's ever expanding line of titles - in this case the major push was given to the Super Treasury Edition of Kirby's 2001: A Space Odyssey, an adaptation of the movie. It would be followed in December 1976 by an ongoing series of the same title which, however, would find few favours with readers and be cancelled after a mere ten issues.

The final item of news was both bad and not really news at all - Marvel's need (for reasons explained in this Bullpen Bulletin in a separate box) to raise the cover price for their regular comics from 25˘ to 30˘. Following a few tests in select markets to gauge buyer reactions to the 5˘ hike, the higher price was introduced as of September 1976 (cover date), i.e. the previous month. The price for a MARVEL MULTI-MAGS rose accordingly, to 89˘ for three comics instead of the previous 74˘.





October 1976
On Sale:
13 July 1976

Editor - Archie Goodwin
Cover - Gil Kane (pencils) & Al Milgrom (inks)

"Death Seed!"
(17 pages)
Story - Doug Moench
Pencils - Paul Gulacy
Inks - Pablo Marcos
Lettering -
John Costanza
Colouring - Petra Goldberg

STORY OVERVIEW - Shang-Chi and MI6 agent Clive Reston are in Switzerland to confront Fah Lo Suee, Fu Manchu's evil daughter and her two henchmen, the Golden Daggers. They learn that Dr Petrie is the mole in their midst and that one of Fah Lo Suee's assets is actually a Swiss agent. Subsequently, Shang-Chi, Reston and Leiko (Shang-Chi's love interest) fight their way out of a tight spot, while elsewhere Fu Manchu is advancing plans for his return...

Master of Kung Fu was one of Marvel's many titles of the 1970s which moved somewhat outside of the traditional superhero theme. The intention was for the House of Ideas to potentially tap into new readership groups or expand the interests of existing ones by opening up new genres. Star Wars is of course the best known and also the most profitable such venture, along with Conan the Barbarian, but Master of Kung Fu was pretty successful too.
Marvel had started to fully embrace the genre expansion by the very early 1970s, and the case for a Kung-Fu themed title was brought up by Steve Englehart and Jim Starlin after having seen the TV show Kung Fu (Pearl, 2012).

"We went to Roy Thomas, Marvel's Editor-in-Chief, and proposed our series. Roy was not impressed; martial art was not his thing. But he was at least intrigued by our enthusiasm, so he did his [Editor-in-Chief] thing and said he'd okay it if we incorporated Fu Manchu, a more traditional Asian character, as a sales draw (...) I'd read all the Fu Manchu books, and I liked pulp. I could write Fu Manchu - if he absolutely had to be in the book. Jim and I didn't think he did (...) but Kung Fu was still just a blip on the radar, and editorial decisions are based on what's worked before, so Fu Manchu was in." (Englehart, 2016)

Acquiring the rights to Sax Rohmer's characters came with a short-term sales boost and a long-term problem.

The sales boost worked instantly. Shang-Chi made his debut in Special Marvel Edition #15 (December 1973), a former reprint title, and resonated so well with readers that Special Marvel Edition was simply retitled as of issue #17, becoming Master of Kung Fu (with the prefixed tagline The Hands of Shang-Chi). It ran for 109 issues before being cancelled with Master of Kung Fu #125 in June 1983.

The long term problem was that while Shang-Chi was a Marvel character, Fu Manchu was not.

Created by Sax Rohmer for his 1913 novel The Mystery of Dr. Fu Manchu (released in the US as The Insidious Dr. Fu Manchu), the character and name had to be licensed from the Rohmer estate. A major reason for doing so, it seems, is that Roy Thomas at the time had been told that DC might look into a Fu Manchu title if Marvel did anything in the way of Kung Fu (Cronin, 2019).

However, when Marvel cancelled the series, they lost the rights to Fu Manchu (as was the case with many characters Marvel licensed in the 1970s, e.g. Godzilla). It created a problem for Marvel's own Shang-Chi (since so much of his character background was tied up in the relationship with his evil father), making further appearances of the "Master of Kung Fu" somewhat complicated and leading to various retcon measures in attempts to not have to use the name Fu Manchu.


Even though actually only appearing in one single panel of this issue of MOKF, Fu Manchu is mentioned several times and is part of the plot - a fact that prevented reprints for decades.

But what was therefore totally impossible for the longest time, was for Marvel to reprint any of the original Master of Kung Fu material - until a licensing agreement was once again reached with the Rohmer estate in 2015. As a result, Marvel rushed the entire Bronze Age MOKF material to the printers and published it in four volumes of Omnibus format collections between 2016 and 2017.
  This is the first issue of a six-part storyline culminating in Master of Kung Fu #50, with each issue narrated by a different character (part 1, in this issue, by Shang-Chi). However, Master of Kung Fu was a rare find in a MARVEL MULTI-MAGS (to date only three such occasions are known), so there was no way one could have followed that arc with what was available over the following months in subsequent MARVEL MULTI-MAGS.




October 1976
On Sale:
6 July 1976

Editor - Marv Wolfman
Cover - Gene Colan (pencils) & Tom Palmer(inks)

"And with the Word there shall come Death!"
(18 pages)
Story - Marv Wolfman
Pencils - Gene Colan
Inks - Tom Palmer
Lettering -
John Costanza
Colouring - Michele Wolfman

STORY OVERVIEW - Dracula is mysteriously summoned to appear in the presence of a woman who has become infatuated with him through Bram Stoker's novel - and where he meets other characters from famous works of fiction.

As per the cover blurb's request, the surprise ending of this one-issue-interlude story shall not be revealed...

Marvel's intentions of including Dracula in the foray into new genres on which the House of Ideas was embarking were first announced to the general readership in the July 1971 Bullpen Bulletin. The initial plans for Tomb Of Dracula (the extension to the vampire count's name was necessary for Marvel to be able to copyright the title) saw the title as a black and white magazine; the decision to use the traditional colour comic book format came as late as after completion of Gene Colan's artwork for the first issue (Cooke, 2001).
In April 1972, Tomb Of Dracula #1 hit the newsagents stands, and inspite of an initial lack of constant authorship (Gerry Conway worked on issues #1-2, Archie Goodwin on issues #3-4, and Gardner Fox on issues #5-6), this horror title found favour with its readership, and the title went from bi-monthly to monthly publication as of Tomb of Dracula #9 in June 1973.

It would soon become Marvel's flagship horror title. Being far more than just an average vampire tale, it broke new grounds as it wove an ongoing saga which plotted the vampire count against a group of vampire hunters. Gene Colan and Marv Wolfman (who took over the writing as of issue #7) achieved a quality of storytelling which was not only in the best vein of the classic gothic vampire stories but also added its very own stamp of originality and thematic momentum.

Ultimately, Tomb Of Dracula would become the longest running Bronze Age Marvel horror genre title as well as the longest running comic book title ever with a villain as its namegiving hero before it was finally cancelled, after a staggering 70 issues, in August 1979.

The title's quality and its lasting appeal and success are inextricably linked to Gene Colan's artwork (embellished by inker Tom Palmer) and Marv Wolfman's plotting. It was, quite simply, one of those cases where a winning team just happened to come together to perfection.



"Gene's artwork certainly is the reason why we could do a lot of that stuff." (Marv Wolfman in Siuntres, 2006)

And while Wolfman followed Stoker's general lead in his portrayal of Dracula, he was decidedly more concerned with the possibly remaining human traits in the vampire count's personality than the novel had been - not the least, of course, because Wolfman was not writing a single publication, but a serialized narrative.

"[Dracula] was the protagonist, but he was never the hero (...) that was the trick. If you just saw this guy as a (...) one-dimensional villain - as was the standard at the time [in comic books] - there would be no way to keep the series going. This book was called "Tomb of Dracula", it wasn't called "Tomb of Rachel van Helsing" or "The Vampire Hunters" or something like that, so Dracula had to become a real character (...) [there had to be] some features about him, some things that still reached back to when he was human." (Marv Wolfman in Comic Geek Speak, 2005)

Together with the intense and atmospheric pencilling of Gene Colan and inking by Tom Palmer, Marv Wolfman's non-conformist comic book approach to Bram Stoker's classic genre character produced a creative masterpiece.

Tomb Of Dracula owes its uniqueness and much of its success to an important shift in focus which Marv Wolfman brought to the title:

"A lot of us back then were trying to break out of comics just for kids, and it was very possible for us to do those things on the non-superhero books, because no one was paying attention. So Roy Thomas could do that on Conan, Steve [Englehart] could do that on Doc Strange and Master of Kung-Fu, [Steve] Gerber could do it on Man-Thing or Howard the Duck, and I could do it on Dracula - and those were the books that I think made the Seventies at Marvel something more than just more of the same type material that Stan had done - which we loved, absolutely loved [...] The idea was for Dracula [...] to try and push comics into other things, other areas, that they had not explored." (Marv Wolfman in Siuntres, 2006)





  As pointed out, Tomb Of Dracula was a rare find in a MARVEL MULTI-MAGS; to date only three issues (#23, #49 and #56) are known to have been included in the selection. The general absence of horror titles from MARVEL MULTI-MAGS during the 1970s is quite striking in comparison to rival DC's Superpacs (which featured them a lot). There was quite obviously a certain hesticancy with regard to Marvel's horror titles - something that only changed in the early 1980s, when a number of issues of Ghost Rider regularly found their way into MARVEL MULTI-MAGS.




October 1976
On Sale:
13 July 1976

Editor - Len Wein
Cover - Rich Buckler (pencils) & Joe Sinnott (inks)

"A Night on the Town!"
(18 pages)
Story - Len Wein
Pencils - John Buscema (breakdowns), Joe Sinnott (finished artwork)
Inks - Joe Sinnott
Lettering -
Joe Rosen
Colouring - Glynis Oliver

STORY OVERVIEW - Left to their own devices on the streets of New York by Thor (who left for Costa Verde to deal with Firelord*), the Warriors Three (Fandral the Dashing, Hogun the Grim and Volstagg the Enormous) hail a cab in search of adventure. They end up rescuing a suicidal young woman and reuniting her with her wrongly accused and hence errant fiancé.

* The story takes place between Thor #247 and 248.

Marvel Spotlight was one of three "tryout titles" (the others being Marvel Premiere and Marvel Feature) launched at Stan Lee's suggestion (Howe, 2012) with the intention of giving writers and artists at Marvel a platform to introduce new concepts and characters. From a publisher's point of view it was also a fairly risk-free means of assessing a feature's popularity without the marketing investment required to actually launch a new series (which also kept potential financial losses and any blows to the publisher's image to a minimum in case a new character tanked with readers).
The choice of titles was somewhat suggestive - Marvel Premiere could be expected to premier new characters while Marvel Spotlight would most likely spotlight established characters - but

"I don't think Stan [Lee] (or I) cared much what went where. They were just names to us." (Roy Thomas in Buttery, 2014)

Marvel did try to put some order into things later, as the letters page of Marvel Premiere #32 explained:

"SPOTLIGHT is a try-out book for previously-introduced Marvel characters (...) In PREMIERE, however, we want to establish a slightly different bent, showcasing new ideas and concepts."

Marvel Spotlight was launched in November 1971 and would prove to be a very successful launchpad for new characters and titles over the course of its 33 issues before being cancelled in April 1977, as the following list of features shows.
Marvel Spotlight #1 November 1971 Red Wolf moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #2-4 February 1972 - June 1972 Werewolf By Night moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #5-11 August 1972 - August 1973 Ghost Rider moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #12-24 October 1973 - October 1975 Son of Satan moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #25 December 1975 Sinbad  
Marvel Spotlight #26 February 1976 Scarecrow  
Marvel Spotlight #27 April 1976 Sub-Mariner  
Marvel Spotlight #28-29 June 1976 - August 1976 Moon Knight moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #30 October 1976 Warriors Three  
Marvel Spotlight #31 December 1976 Nick Fury Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.  
Marvel Spotlight #32 February 1977 Spider-Woman moved to own title
Marvel Spotlight #33 April 1977 Deathlok and Devil-Slayer  
The Warriors Three certainly stand out a bit, given that they were introduced as far back as August 1965 (in Journey into Mystery #119) as Asgardian supporting characters to Thor. Entirely devoid of any roots in Norse mythology, the trio is an all-out Marvel creation by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and were, in fact, only referred to as the "Warriors Three" for the first time in the letters page of Thor #244 (February 1976), which also promised an appearance in Marvel Spotlight (Buttery, 2014).

  It seems unlikely that their single issue Spotlight adventure was intended to test the waters for their own title - "A Night on the Town" feels more like a one-off fun story for which Spotlight provided an ideal slot opportunity.

Len Wein set up the "we are but three lonely Gods seeking entertainment" theme and in doing so had lots of fun himself.

"It was just such a joy to write, and the late great John Buscema's artwork didn't exactly hurt it no-how." (Len Wein in Buttery, 2014)

"Much of the fun comes from the trio's fish-out-of-water status, coupled with their total obliviousness to that fact." (Buttery, 2014)

The Warriors Three continued to be supporting characters for Thor, at times even taking on important roles.

They have also featured in various TV animation series and are also present in all the Thor movies of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (although all three are killed by Hela in Thor: Ragnarok).

  To date, Marvel Spotlight #30 is the only known occurence of that title in a MARVEL MULTI-MAGS. However, there is a concurrent MARVEL MULTI-MAGS with a green label which also features Marvel Spotlight #30 but instead of Master of Kung Fu #45 and Tomb of Dracula #49 carries Daredevil #138 and Ka-Zar #18.

  Today, any MARVEL MULTI-MAGS is a time capsule; opening that plastic bag offers a nostalgic glimpse into what it was like to be a comic book reader in the 1970s. And then as now, the combination of the three titles in these sealed polybags could go either way; sometimes it's all thrills, and sometimes there's a lemon in there - or two, if you're really unlucky.
I am pretty certain that, back in the days, I would have considered this MARVEL MULTI-MAGS a treasure chest simply based on the presence of Master of Kung Fu and Tomb Of Dracula.

MOKF (the acronym used by fans for Master of Kung Fu) #45 does have a slightly confusing way of telling its story, as changes in locale are not announced as usual with blurbs such as "Meanwhile, back in ...". But the story flows, and since Moench had by that point in time brought in espionage in the form of MI6 and other agents, the pace is fast and the twists and turns of the storyline both surprising and frequent. On top of that, Fu Manchu is clearly staging a comeback, and Switzerland always makes for a good spy story backdrop. Four out of five stars.

I would have appreciated Tomb Of Dracula #49 as much back in the days as I do today. Since the title is a true rarity in the world of MARVEL MULTI-MAGS (as is, of course, MOKF), this is a true treat. Marv Wolfman would from time to time weave in single-issue stories, which often seemed to serve the purpose of letting the dust settle a bit between the end of one plot arc and the beginning of the next. The one told here in TOD (another acronym often used on letterpages and the likes) #49 really does fire on all cylinders and gives Gene Colan a chance to draw a few characters not readily associated with Dracula, on top of his marvelously cinematic pencils he always brought to the title. Five out of five stars.

Marvel Spotlight #30 is the surprise here for me. I'm not entirely sure I would have liked this a lot in my early teenage days of reading comic books back in the mid-1970s, but reading it now for the first time, I found this to be amazing. Len Wein had a real knack for writing stories full of warmth and heart, and his humour is so spot on I wouldn't hesitate to call this an overlooked classic, especially since John Buscema just makes it flow effortlessly. Five out of five stars, hands down.

All in all, this is one of those MARVEL MULTI-MAGS that just brings back all the good vibes one remembers getting from reading Marvel comic books back in the days.


  Today, any MARVEL MULTI-MAGS is a time capsule; opening this plastic bag right here offers a nostalgic glimpse into what it was like to be a comic book reader in October 1976.

So what else was going on back then?

  The US Billboard Chart saw three number 1s during October 1976: Walter Murphy and the Big Apple Band with "A Fifth of Beethoven" as well as Chicago with "If you leave me now" for one week each, while Rick Dees and His Cast of Idiots got two weeks at the top with "Disco Duck (Part 1)". In the UK, ABBA with "Dancing Queen" and Pussycat with "Mississippi" topped the charts for two weeks each - clearly not reflecting at all the fact that 1976 was the year that Punk Rock exploded onto the British music scene.
  The New York Times Bestseller list for October 1976 was topped by Leon Uris' "Trinity", a spot he occupied since June; by the end of October, however, the number one position would go to Agatha Christie's posthumously published last Miss Marple book, "Sleeping Murder"..
  In October 1976 John Schlesinger's "Marathon Man" was the most popular movie in the US. Overall, "Rocky" was the US top-grossing movie while "Jaws" (which had been released in 1975 in the States) topped the 1976 list in the UK.
  In the US, all of the three most popular TV shows came from ABC, with "Happy Days" taking the top spot. Numbers for the UK are sketchy, but it appears that the TV premiere of James Bond's "Goldfinger" got the most viewers to sit down in front of the telly.

  "Comic packs" not only sold well for more than two decades, they also offer some interesting insight into the comic book industry's history from the 1960s through to the 1990s. There's more on their general history here.
  There's more on the background and the history of the Marvel Multi Mags here.
  There's more background information and discussion of the "yellow and green on white (3 comics for 89˘)" label MARVEL MULTI-MAGS here.
  There's more in-depth information on the background of Tomb Of Dracula, its creators and its publication history, here.

BREVOORT Tom (2007) "Marvel Multi-Mags", Blah Blah Blog, originally published online 28 April 2007, reposted 18 April 2020

BUTTERY Jarrod (2014) "Ready for the Spotlight", in Back Issue! #71, April 2014

COOKE Jon B. (1998) "Stan the Man & Roy the Boy: A Conversation Between Stan Lee and Roy Thomas", in Comic Book Artist #2, Summer 1998

COOKE Jon B. (2001) "Son of Stan: Roy's Years of Horror", in Comic Book Artist #13, 2001

CRONIN Brian (2019) "Did Marvel Have a License for Fu Manchu Before Shang-Chi Was Created?", published online at CBR, 27 May 2019

ENGLEHART Steve (2016) "Introduction", in The Hands of Shang-Chi, Master of Kung Fu Omnibus, Volume 1

HOWE Sean (2012) Marvel Comics - The Untold Story, Harper Collins

PEARL Barry (2012) "Lost in Licensing: Exit Fu Manchu", published online at Comic Book Collectors Club, 27 June 2012 (at

SIUNTRES John (2006) "Marv Wolfman by Night", Word Balloon: The Comic Creator's Interview Show (transcribed from the podcast originally available online at





(c) 2021

uploaded to the web 14 November 2021